From Rail Roots to Leading IANA

Anne Reinke didn’t plan on leaving the Transportation Intermediaries Association, but when the longtime IANA leader retired after more than two decades, she received an offer she couldn’t refuse. With a lifelong passion for rail and deep experience at CSX and TIA, Anne stepped into the role of President and CEO of the Intermodal Association of North America.

In this episode of Everything is Logistics, Anne shares how she hit the ground running with a listening tour of IANA’s membership, her vision for elevating the association’s profile, and the key policy issues she’s prioritizing in Washington. She also breaks down the often-overlooked benefits of intermodal and why it deserves more attention from shippers and policymakers alike.

Key takeaways:

• Anne’s career path from CSX to TIA prepared her to lead IANA.
• A nationwide listening tour is shaping IANA’s strategy and member priorities.
• Intermodal’s complexity often hides its cost and sustainability advantages.
• Advocacy efforts focus on labor, infrastructure, and independent contractor protections.
• IANA is working to boost awareness and build trust in intermodal.

LINKS:

• Anne's LinkedIn
• Intermodal Association of North America Website

WATCH THE FULL EPISODE HERE

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Chapters

• 5:49 From TIA to IANA
• 14:22 Why Intermodal Freight Struggles with Awareness
• 23:07 Intermodal’s Advantages for Shippers
• 33:15 Cargo Theft and Security Risks
• 43:50 Advocacy and Policy Challenges
• 57:20 Data, Tech, and the Road Ahead

Transcript

Anne Reinke: 0:42

When we talk about AI, we're just talking about automation. Really is what we're talking about. And so where can we automate in a way that makes sense? And I'm with you, the experiment with digital freight brokerage was, I don't think a successful one. I think there are elements though, that make it have make sense. The relationship is too critical, though, to just obviate completely. You cannot get rid of it, and nor should you, because, as we know, you have to trust the people you're working with. And here in intermodal you can't get rid of the relationship. I mean, it's sort of part and parcel of really what the service offering is, and so how do they use it? And I think it's true. Really. How can we optimize the data that we collect? They all do collect data. It's just a question of, are they going to make it visible, and who are they going to make it visible?

Blythe Brumleve: 1:30

Welcome into another episode of everything is logistics, a podcast for the thinkers and the freight. I'm your host, Blythe Milligan, and we are proudly presented by SPI logistics, and we've got a great episode for you all today, because we've got Anne Reinke back on this show, but this time she is representing IANA as the president and CEO. So we're going to be talking about the state of rail, the state of Intermodal Freight, the upcoming IANA Expo, and everything that you can expect there. So and welcome back to the show.

Unknown: 1:58

Blythe, thank you so much. Last time we spoke, you had a different last name, and now, one year in almost, I'm so pleased for you. Things are still going great. It's not like a Kim Kardashian situation. It seems like it's holding strong.

Blythe Brumleve: 2:11

Yes, let's hope so. I'm going to knock on wood. I just think that, like, hopefully I don't go through everything that that guy went through the coast. Kind of deals with with that family, which is a whole whole, you know, box of time

Anne Reinke: 2:26

for another podcast, right? Another podcast. That's the discussion for them.

Blythe Brumleve: 2:29

I could get into gossip, but, you know, friend of the show, Grace Sharkey, we get into a lot of California gossip on the Kardashian and a Meghan Markle side of things. But, you know, we'll save that for another episode, maybe, maybe in the future.

Anne Reinke: 2:44

That's right. That's right. Thank you for having me back. I

Blythe Brumleve: 2:46

appreciate it. Oh, absolutely. Because we were, we were talking before the show got started, and, you know, kind of catching up. You know, personality wise or personal wise. And then for your side of things, you actually just recently made the jump. Tell us about going from Tia to now. Ayanna,

Anne Reinke: 3:04

yeah. So I had such a wonderful experience at Tia. And you know the members, as well as I do, they are sort of salt of the earth, entrepreneurial folk who really invest in themselves to differentiate themselves from their competition. And it makes sense, because there is what, 26,003 PL slash brokers in the space registered with FMCSA, and so you really have stiff competition, you have to distinguish yourself. And going from that industry to IANA, where it's far more scaled, older line industry, right? Railroads, ocean carriers, Dre carriers, chassis providers, and three pls. It's just a slightly different feel. And I will say this, I didn't expect to be here, but Ayanna gave me the offer, the proverbial offer I couldn't refuse. And I suppose because I was in the rail industry for so long, kind of infects you. It's like a contagion, and you can't get it out of your blood system. So I'm back, and I'm having a delightful time so far.

Blythe Brumleve: 4:09

Yeah, because you spent what I think 16 years at CSX,

Anne Reinke: 4:12

that's right, that's right, and 16 years of like, dizzying heights and plummeting lows and everything in between. It's never boring. It is never boring, as you know, in logistics, and it's certainly never boring the rail

Blythe Brumleve: 4:25

industry. Now, I've heard you say that a couple times in interviews for prep for this. I'm curious, because intermodal, you know, coming from the asset based three PL side of things, intermodal was like a small department in the office, and no one really kind of talked to them. And I feel like maybe that's a little bit of a a larger perception among like the, I guess, the brokers and the carriers side of things, outside of the, you know, the the drayage operators, of course, why does maybe intermodal have a little bit of a lower profile, I guess, as awareness is concerned?

Anne Reinke: 4:58

Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons for that, and many of which I'm sort of focused on to try to change. But one of, one of the reasons, I think, is it does seem complex, right? Because when you, when you connect with a carrier, you know that that carrier is going to go, Oh, did he orange? Is a destination, right? And, and what the complexity of of the intermodal space is, is designed for a reason, is the highest and best use of each mode, but, and it's, it's designed to provide sort of truck like service. But if you don't know that, and if you don't understand that complexity, you sort of feel like, I'm not going to bother. And part of to you know, back. Back in 2019 the domestic intermodal market share was something like 8% of of total freight moving here in the United States. It's gone down to 5.9% we have to address that. We have to change that. And part of that has been, you know, because of the supply chain dysfunction during the pandemic, there were some issues with rail service. There was issues with all kinds of service but, but great news, service levels have have outperformed now, and we're doing a lot better. My commitment is alright. We're going to have to educate the folks as to why it makes sense to use intermodal.

Blythe Brumleve: 6:13

So let's talk about that. Let's talk about why it makes sense for intermodal. If you had a, you know, maybe a shippers that are listening to this, what would be, I guess, the selling point to them? Sure. So a

Anne Reinke: 6:24

couple things. One is that, if we talk about, and I'm not going to wade into the debate of whether there is a driver shortage or whether there is not, because Lord knows, you're going to get calls and letters and all kinds of things. But let's just say, let's just say this, that there are fewer drivers out there who want to go long distances, right as we're seeing, sort of the aging population, the folks who are coming in into the trucking space are really interested in more of the short hauls, those that don't take them away from their family for long. Well, this is why I say highest and best use. The railroad can go long distances with great volumes of commodities at a pretty you know, fair to low price, and we don't have to worry about the capacity needs or the concerns about whether or not there's a driver out there for you, we're not taking trucks out of the equation because they're there on the last mile first mile. Nor are we taking you know, when it comes to international intermodal, ocean carriers are pivotal part of that, but we're just saying this is for the best use of both sustainability, for the capacity we have out there and the population who wants to be part of the move.

Blythe Brumleve: 7:43

And so what I guess, is there an ideal like set of commodities that move the best over intermodal.

Anne Reinke: 7:49

Well, obviously, you know, your car load and merchandise freight which moves, you know, that's not intermodal, but that is what you typically think of a railroad, right coal and grain and ethanol and that kind of stuff. That's what you sort of think is because it can be large quantities of it dedicated to that train. But intermodal, you know, you have these vast array of consumer goods as you know, that are either pouring into the country or part of transloads, and it just because of how much we all are spending on consumer spending, still not as much, maybe, as we were a year ago, but still spending it. Just there is this tremendous volume that intermodal can take without having to have so many trucks on the roads doing these long distances.

Blythe Brumleve: 8:36

Does it? How does, I guess maybe the growth of like, you know, Mexico or Canada, and they're transloading opportunities. How impactful is that to the intermodal side of

Anne Reinke: 8:47

things? Yeah, I think there's a lot of folks who are encouraged about the Mexican cross border traffic. It is something that it leads to strong opinions too much like the driver shortage debate, some people who still want to be engaged in Mexico and some people who think it was an experiment that didn't particularly work out for them. We feel encouraged about it, because certainly there are commodities that can come into Mexico that are coming in, perhaps without the tariffs, for example, that that the US is experiencing. And, you know, it's just a little the labor, obviously, is cheaper, so can add to a competitive rate, that kind of thing. And Canada, too has had last month, has enormous domestic intermodal success as well. It's to us. It just is something that is. It's like we can't always control our own destiny, right? Because so much of now is we're in a global economy, and so so much depends on trade and all of that. But there still are bright spots for that, and one believes, I think maybe you've seen it from, from what you read and your other guests, that the capacity is tightening again, for, for long haul trucking, right for, for a lot of different reasons which we can get into. And so intermodal seems to be doing holding its own.

Blythe Brumleve: 10:13

And so I guess when the all of these factors that are kind of happening and bubbling to the surface right now. It kind of feels like, especially from hearing you explain it, that this is almost like intermodal time to shine and maybe gain more market share.

Anne Reinke: 10:29

Well, that's what we hope for. So, so I was hired, and a couple people have been in my ear, and we've got to increase in. Intermodal market share. And listen, I believe that that's one of the major facets of the organization, which is not only to protect and promote the industry, but it's also to grow it. And so that's what one of the things that we're doing is we are taking on a PR campaign to target those beneficial cargo owners, those shippers who may have used intermodal once and didn't like it, like trying to get them back, or who have never used intermodal and have them consider it. And it's interesting. And I'm thinking, you've heard this, that if someone has a negative carrier experience, like a shipper has a negative carrier experience, they just think, we'll just use a different carrier next time. If they have a negative intermodal experience, they're inclined to say, Well, I'm not using intermodal again. And so how do we counteract that? Right? And so, you know, they're all these smart folks who run ad campaigns and know all this stuff how to message that and and I'm not saying I'm one of those people. I just know that we need to hire those people and and make sure that we have the right messaging that

Blythe Brumleve: 11:35

resonates. And so with shippers. What maybe have been some instances that have left, like, a bad taste in their mouth, and then maybe, what are some, you know, I guess, things that you want to shine a light on, on maybe how that process has improved?

Anne Reinke: 11:50

Yeah, I think you'll have to it just all goes back to service reliability. Like, is that service reliable? Is is it going to get to where it gets to when they say it's going to get there. And during the pandemic, there were service reliability issues, I think that's pretty well known. And again, for a number of reasons, some that that there had been a kind of decline in rail employment, and so they had to ramp back up, because there was no expectation that we'd all be sitting home ordering things on mass, but lo and behold, we sure did. We sure did. And so I think if that, if you had your interaction during a period of poor service or unreliable service, I think it might, you might have to be convinced that you should go back and so that, to us, is something that we can do, because we now know the service is so vastly improved. And I will tell you, and I don't, I'm not going to opine on any M and A activity, whether it's good, bad or different, but I will say what's nice to hear from all of the railroads is their commitment to intermodal and how they recognize that it is the sort of their stake in the ground that's where they see real, real growth. And so it's not just this kind of imaginary thing. It's they are committed, and they're a critical component of it, of success, of intermodal.

Blythe Brumleve: 13:12

And so there's, obviously, you know, the big companies that everybody has heard of, you know, there's, you know, lots of merger talk that that's going on right now, and, and, but I'm curious as to the other side of things. So what does the rest of the landscape of intermodal look like? Maybe, from a technical perspective, is there a boom going on, sort of very similar to what brokers and carriers are experiencing with lots of new tech being almost like forced down their throats. Is that same thing happening on the intermodal side of things?

Anne Reinke: 13:42

Yeah, I think, you know, as I said at the outset, the three PL folk are really focused on, on investing in themselves, because there are they have such competition. And so it may be a little bit of a slower application, but it is, is absolutely being considered and for from a bunch of different reasons, not just because customers are demanding it and which they are, but also because of the threat of cargo theft and not being able to counteract the horrible folk in the middle of the night who are stealing, you know, from containers, or the whole container, or what have you. And so having some sort of technology to counteract that, I think, is what others are focusing on. And it does look it makes it a complicated proposition to add too much, too many bells and whistles to an intermodal product, because then you're starting to make it unattractive by making it expensive. But it, I think, you know it is, it is something that they're committed to, because they understand there's a customer expectation for

Blythe Brumleve: 14:49

that. And so for, I guess maybe some of that technology is what like tracking inside of a rail car, or how does that I guess that I guess that work. Is that the one the responsibility of the CSX is of the world, or is that responsibility on whoever owns that box?

Anne Reinke: 15:07

Yeah, so it's interesting. You say that, because I think there is, there's a few different owners at stake, so to speak. So the container itself is owned by one entity, right? And the the actual beneficial cargo is owned by another entity, and then it goes on to, you know, motor carrier in a chassis and railroad. So it is complicated in terms of responsibility that being said as part of that kind of overall service package, you can have those. Discussions with the beneficial cargo owner in the container. Just container owner to say, here's what we think would be best. Is it like the best kind of seal? For example, here's why having the best kind of seal makes sense. It may be slightly more challenging to open, but that's for your you know, people at the warehouse at the end of the line, but that's actually good. That's optimal. We want it to be challenging to open because of all the things we're talking about with cargo theft and everything else. And so, yeah, I think it has to be part of the larger discussion and really an education process so that the cargo owner can say to the container folk, this is what we would want, right? And make sure that there is an understanding as to what the benefits are of that.

Blythe Brumleve: 16:26

Now, when I think of cargo theft, it mostly goes to like the trucking side of things, where, you know, a driver is, you know, nefarious, and he picks up a load and takes it to, you know, a warehouse that he's working in cahoots with. And they all kind of sell, you know, the merchandise that that's inside, and they're all kind of in on it with intermodal, like I've seen, you know, some of those clips. I'm sure everybody has, you know, mean, the port of, are they whipping into the stuff? Yeah. And there's just packages, you know, kind of everywhere I've seen that. But what does, I guess, cargo crime look like in the intermodal space? Is it? Obviously, it's not like, you know, a bunch of bandits running up on horses and taking over a train. Like, what does it look

Anne Reinke: 17:07

like? Yeah, now, cartoon representation. Now they're in SUVs and taking over a train, yeah? Well, so I, you know, if you talk to the kind of smart folks who are, who are doing the security for the for the different operations, the railroads, etcetera, they would say, Well, there's two kinds of of cargo theft. There's this kind of crime of opportunity, which is to what you're saying, you know, these people who see a container, and it may be the train is stopped because it's waiting, you know, for another train to clear, or what have you. And so then they rip into it, and they screw all the stuff around, and they, you know, get it. So that isn't just kind of this unplanned sort of thing, but it's, it's obviously incredibly costly and not great for a lot of different reasons. And then you have your strategic theft and the strategic fact after the folks who really know where things are at a certain place, and they know what's in that container, and they know how to get it, and so it could be an intermodal yard, they can cut the fences to get into the intermodal yard. And that could be, you know, the the container is sitting on a chassis, or that container is just sitting in the yard, or that container is sitting on a truck, or that container is sitting on a train, and they know that it's a bunch of Air Jordans that just came out. And how do they know these things? It could be that there's some inside operation. It's hard to know, but somehow these thieves know more so than like the rest of us, what are in these containers, and that is an organized criminal element. And to many, to many of these, these incidences have been connected to cartels. And so what makes it so challenging is that it's not just, you know, Joey thief, right? Like these are people who may not be even in the United States, who it's very hard to get a reach of. And as I mentioned, if let's just say something happens on the road, meaning it's like, either it left a facility, and so it's either out there on the railroad tracks or out there on the roads. It's hard to know where these things happen. If you're stopped for some period of time, it's hard to say, hey, you know Sheriff this happened? And the sheriff's going to say, Well, where did it happen in my jurisdiction? You're like, I don't actually know, right? And so that's what also, all of the enforcement issues make are challenging in that regard.

Blythe Brumleve: 19:26

And that's where maybe more technology is kind of trying to be forced into the conversation where you can maybe answer some of those questions. Do those kinds of solutions exist for intermodal

Anne Reinke: 19:38

they do. And so there, there are companies out there that have sensors on the container doors, for example. And so those companies can detect if a container door is being opened, and can notify the railroad operator that this is happening. And so then that railroad operator can, or, you know, or the drayage provider can then try to send their own security or try to see if there's a way to to combat that before anything gets out of control. And so there have been, typically, this is what I hear. I'm not a thief, so I don't know, but typically, these kind of like container heist, or like 30 minutes from start to finish. Oh, wow. So if there's a way, if you can sense immediately if that container door being open, there is a chance. I mean, it's not huge, but there's a chance that you can stop it before it's all gone. Do you know how they're they could potentially stop it? I mean, it just feels like such. Short window of time that you have to act, yeah, so, you know, there, there are railroad police, for example. And so those railroad police, if they're in the jurisdiction, if they're in the vicinity, can come up, and it's obviously, you know, it's up to their protocols as to how they how they handle that, and I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly how they handle it, but if they are, and if they're able to catch these folks proverbially red handed, there is an opportunity. Or they can just call the 911, and and report it if they don't want to handle themselves. Or they're not our own police, yeah, if they're not

Blythe Brumleve: 21:10

forces or, you know, SUVs chasing them down, the bandits on

Anne Reinke: 21:15

a train. Jesse James. Jesse James, there he is,

Blythe Brumleve: 21:19

eye mask and a cowboy hat. And, yeah, you gotta, gotta come prepared in the proper outfit if you're going to

Anne Reinke: 21:25

chase down some real thieves. Costuming is so important.

Blythe Brumleve: 21:30

Recognize you from a far away distance. Now on, I I know for Tia, you were involved with a lot of you know, well, maybe not. Maybe this is previous to Tia. Maybe I'm messing up the timeline here, but you were helping out with, like, lobbying efforts for freight brokers and maybe inside of, you know, Tia, with advising on different policy issues and things like that. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but are you doing any of that on the intermodal side of things now,

Anne Reinke: 22:00

yes, and you don't have anything wrong. You are completely right. So yeah. Well, one of the reasons I think I was hired at IANA was that they were, they had not much of a lobbying presence. It was just something that they were really focused internally on building up the organization and representing the industry, sort of industry to industry, not so much, industry to Washington. So because my background is lobbying in Washington, think there's commitment from the board, and then hence me is to develop an advocacy arm, and so we are hiring a Vice President of Government Affairs, and we're going to develop a department. And why do we do this? Well, there are a couple of reasons. One is it's another, it's another outlet to talk about intermodal and I've noticed since I've been I've been up on the hill a few times not there are people who are kind of transportation nerds, and I'm one of them, so I'm not being pejorative who, who know what intermodal is, but the vast majority of, like the staff, don't have any clue or members, and so what we've got to change that, because there are programs out there, for example, grant programs where there's funding for big intermodal facilities? Well, you can have a public private partnership where, if an intermodal facility needs to get built, then you can have some government funding and some private funding and really make it, you know, actually work. And so, and also, our voice needs to be part of it. We're representing a segment of the industry. And so if we're saying we need permitting reform in order to get those intermodal facilities built, or if we need to have independent contractors still be part of the system, because 80% of the DRE drivers are independent contractors, and so we cannot have an industry wrecked. So we've got to have our voice out there.

Blythe Brumleve: 23:56

That's super interesting, because I've always, you know, you hear about lobbying and a grand scheme of things, it's like, you know, a very negative thing that, you know, special interests involved in, you know, they're coming down on the little guy and things like that. But from what I understand, especially on what what you are prioritizing, is really establishing a framework to open up a conversation with the people who are making and passing

Anne Reinke: 24:21

laws. Yeah. I mean, I'm sort of a holy roller on this issue, which, Look, I get that there are, there is a negative perception of lobbying, because you feel like, well, if those you know, these fat cats can do it, they're shutting out the little guy. But really, it's, as an American, it's your first amendment, right? And let's think about the 535 members of Congress. Do you think they possibly could understand intermodal they, they've got all these people in their ears, right, talking about, God knows what, whether it's China, whether it's you know the name of the commander. So, no, I'm kidding. Whatever the issue is, they can't possibly know everything, right? And so if who's going to tell them, is it going to be us who actually know what we're talking about, who's going to tell them, or is it going to be somebody else who's going to be like, here's why intermittal stinks, right? And so we have to be up there. And it's not that, it's like we're not doing anything other than educating. Honestly, we just don't have, we don't have a capacity to do anything else. We just have to educate and get to know these folk and say, here's what you may or may not know, and here are some constituencies in your district who you can talk to to find out more. Oh,

Blythe Brumleve: 25:33

interesting. Okay, so the the process of setting that. Up is, you know, hiring somebody in charge of Government Affairs, and then they are, what is their next step after they're hired? Is it, you know, making relationships? Is it kind of shaking hands and making introductions like, what does, I guess that day to day job look like? Yeah,

Anne Reinke: 25:52

that person's gonna have a lot of me breathing down their neck and them just constantly having to do stuff. So, yeah, they will job, the job. So, yes, I don't want to get too kind of granular, really, but like, so they're committees of jurisdiction, right? That deal with transportation issues. And so those members are supposed to be kind of the specialists for the Congress. So there's on the House side, there's a Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. Well, the first thing you want to do is get to know all those people, because those are the people who are dealing next year, they'll be dealing with a Surface Transportation reauthorization bill. And so what is in there that either hurts us or could help us? And so you got to get to know all of those folk. And the next people you need to get to know on the Senate side, Senate Commerce Committee, you got to get know all those folk, but you also need to get to know all the members, because, you know, we are a diffuse group, right? We represent all these different modes and the ports and everybody, but we can all align on the supply chain, and what's critical about that, and so get to know all those folks too. So yeah, this person's going to have a

Blythe Brumleve: 28:27

lot of, a lot of stuff to do, a lot of people, it sounds

Anne Reinke: 28:31

I mean, this is the thing about lobbying, like most things, it's like sales it's like a sales job. And so how does sales succeed? Well, it's, it's targeted relationships, right?

Blythe Brumleve: 28:44

That's super interesting, I guess. You know, going back to my earlier comment of what you kind of hear about, you know, lobbying is almost like the boogeyman, but it's from what you explained. It's just really relationship building and then being able to educate them appropriately on the realities of the industry. So I wonder, you know, if you are, you know, maybe hiring somebody that is in that role, what are some of those key pressing issues that's affecting intermodal right now? I believe AB five, California's AB five bill is one of the bigger ones, because it impacts owner operators. And then, as you explained, you know, owner operators are what 90% of drayage dryers, 80%

Anne Reinke: 29:27

Yeah, yeah. Wow, yeah. So, so, yeah. So, the the big issues are, I mentioned the Surface Transportation reauthorization bill. That's a next year deal, but it's a big one. It's a really big deal because that's where it you know, it doesn't happen, but every five to six years, and that's where all these grant programs are authorized and eligibility for the grant programs, also, they'll have things about permitting reform and project delivery reform, things like that, which can really expedite, you know, can expedite projects being built. And they'll have some other things that could affect us, and so we've got to be part of that discussion. So yes, then independent contractor, it's it's on the federal level. There has not been activity other than there's some legislation that would attempt to preserve it, which we're supportive of. But as you know, California has had AB five now New Jersey is looking at regulations that essentially would effectively end the independent contractor from existing and so, yeah, that that's another thing that they're going to have to work on as well. And then they're always these sort of nits and nats cargo theft. There's legislation that would perhaps not solve the problem, but would address the problem. So we're supportive of that. And then, you know, these other things that could happen, rail regulation, for example, or, you know, anything affecting the Dray driver. All of that stuff is something we need to to be on top of. What

Blythe Brumleve: 30:55

is their argument against, sort of the independent contractor, you know, California and possibly New Jersey.

Anne Reinke: 31:02

Well, I don't want to be cynical about it. So I the cynical person, not me, would say that it is an attempt to to address a declining union population. But I that's a cynical person. What I would say is that it is their contention that some people should be considered an employee for all intents and purposes they are. And so the the employer is getting out of paying health care and all the all the stuff, tax, and so, right, exactly. And so what you know, what our contention is, is these folks are an independent contractor for a reason, because they want to be in business for themselves. It's not like they're being duped into it. There's not some sort of power struggle or leverage that is unfair. It is someone who wants to be a driver for himself. He or she has bought a truck, bought two trucks. X bought three trucks, what have you, and has their own business. They are not interested in working for somebody else. Perhaps they've already worked for somebody else and they didn't like it. So, so it's kind of one of those things where it's like, I don't think you should think you know better than the person who's actually in that position.

Blythe Brumleve: 32:22

Yeah, very true. Because I wouldn't want somebody as a you know, I'm an independent contractor for several companies, and I choose that path because that's the path I want to and I would want somebody else coming in and saying, No, you're not allowed to do that anymore. That just seems absolutely ridiculous, like what business of it is yours? And it just sounds like maybe they're trying to make it their

Anne Reinke: 32:44

business. That's right, and it's interesting. In New Jersey, it's become quite a contentious issue. And you know, what's fascinating is you don't even realize, like you just said, you're an independent contractor. It's fascinating how many other entities, like hairstylists and hair braiders and, you know, IT professionals and all these, all these kinds of industries. So you don't like freelance writers, you don't even think about as independent contractors who are lobbying against this regulation, because they think, what are you doing? This is my livelihood that you're you're affecting,

Blythe Brumleve: 33:18

right? And it's like, I, you know, as an independent contractor, I pay taxes, and probably more taxes than you know the employer would pay, but maybe they get it a little bit more automatically, if you're a w2 employee, versus trying to rely on, I guess, the independent contractor to know what to pay. I'm just thinking outside the box here, but yeah, yeah, I still pay taxes, and I probably pay too much, so

Anne Reinke: 33:42

yeah, right, don't we all conversation we'll have it in April. We'll have it in April.

Blythe Brumleve: 33:51

So we'll, we'll have all of those conversations, along with, you know, the Kim Kardashians of the world. And you know, we'll, we'll, we'll table those for a future discussion, truck driver shortage, Kim Kardashian independent contractors. Okay, so let's talk about what maybe your day to day looks like at IANA, you mentioned, you know, raising the profile, getting more, you know, hiring a person in charge of government affairs. Are there any other aspects that you are focused on for that association? Well,

Anne Reinke: 34:21

absolutely. So a couple of things. I was just in the Dallas Fort Worth area over the last few days meeting with members, critical members for us, not just members, but also universities. We have a scholarship program with different universities where we provide the university some funds for them to give to students interested in supply chain education. So that's the next generation of folk. Obviously, we all get concerned about, are there going to be enough people to replace those retiring? And so that's one way to address it, right, to make sure that they're at school studying all about that, and that we can be supportive of that. And so why don't why am I making a big deal about this? Because my predecessor was, she was in charge for 27 years. I mean, that's amazing, right? And she did an enormously she was really strong and great and did all the right things. But, you know, after 27 years, do you feel like you need to go out and meet members? Probably not, right? You've met them so,

Blythe Brumleve: 35:18

but probably several times, probably

Anne Reinke: 35:21

several times, 1000 times over, so, but they haven't met me, and so part of that is I'm going out there and meeting with these members, and a hearing from them as to why they want to be a part of IANA, but also what they see for intermodal. And then b Tell them what my vision is for the association, and hopefully they find it compelling, and then they want to have continued engagement. I think that is such an important piece of being an association head is you can't just sit in your room and and talk to yourself and think you know what you're doing. And even if you talk on the telephone, telephone, I sound like I'm 1000 years old. Jesus. I mean, even if you're talking on the phone or zooming, it's still it's not. It does not replace getting out there and meeting people where they are. Oh, that, yeah, that's right, because

Blythe Brumleve: 36:09

I was listening to your interview with with Joe Lynch, logistics. Of logistics, great podcast for for anybody who's out there, if you haven't heard about it, you probably, you probably have. For most people listening to this great connector, isn't it? Yes. And for in that conversation, I think you mentioned that you were going on a listening tour on all is that, you know, a major hub that you mentioned is that kind of the the MO right now is going on that listening tour to all the major hubs of IANA,

Anne Reinke: 36:36

yeah, so, so I've gone to Chicago, I went to DFW. I've been down to Jacksonville, been to Charlotte, North Carolina. There's much more for me to do, obviously, but that's sort of a start, and I think I'm probably leaving out places, which is, I'm so sorry for those folks. I'm leaving out because I can't remember. You know, I'm getting older, but, but yeah, I mean, they, they, they want to be reassured that they their investment in i. Is, is, is paying off, right and and rightly so, if they're if they've been used to a certain kind of way that the the association has operated over the years, and now they have a new person coming in, I'm doing the organization a disservice if I don't go out there and meet with them.

Blythe Brumleve: 37:18

So what? What are maybe some of those bigger concerns that they have? And then maybe, what are you going to implement because of those conversations?

Anne Reinke: 37:28

Yeah, I mean, so, so first and foremost, it's, how are we going to address market share, right? We got a business, yeah. I mean, and that's, and because of the industry succeeds, IANA succeeds. If IANA succeeds, we're hoping that the industry is is successful. So I think that's kind of first and foremost is, how do you address market share? How? What can you do to promote it? And then, you know, obviously there any association has its association issues, which is, how do you assure that there are new voices being represented on industry committees, for example? And fair enough, you don't necessarily want to have the same people saying the same things for years and years and years. How do you make it so that there are talented people who want to be part of the kind of education system, the committee system, the board how do how do we get that next generation in? And so I think all of it is like they're very smart folk who have good ideas. And so it's my bet, to my benefit, that I have these people in my ear telling me, you know, what they think we should do, and I'm happy to implement in a way that I think makes

Blythe Brumleve: 38:38

sense. Now I'm on the board of the TMSA, and so I hear a lot of what you're saying, because Jennifer karpus remain does a fantastic job leading the association and getting those new voices and all the different committees involved. So I'm curious, what does, I guess maybe the landscape of IANA look like? Is it, you know, similar structure? Is it maybe like a cscmp where there's, you know, different, you know, hubs, as you mentioned, what does a what does the behind the scenes kind of look like, the committee versus board kind of structure? Sure. So we have a board with board committees, and so those are just board members on it, for example, Policy Committee. There's

Anne Reinke: 39:21

a nominations committee to make sure we get that sort of pipeline of talent, that kind of thing. We have a committee who is in charge of looking at the hour, and this is really going to get weedy, but we we facilitate the uniform intermodal interchange agreement, which is essentially the rules of the road of how equipment is interchange. And so we have a committee that kind of oversees that. And then we have three non board committees. We have maintenance or repair So, kind of like road ability, if you think about what that could mean, we have safety and security. And so they're looking at, well, cargo theft is part of as part of that, but, but, you know, writ large, safety and security. And then finally, operations. What are some ways to to improve operations. And so those folks are your kind of frontline workers who are dealing with those issues every day and have really thoughtful approaches to it. And we're trying to make sure that that you want it to be vigorous. You don't want them to just have a committee where people and ideas go to die like that's not helping anybody. And so, you know, sometimes you got to reinvigorate them.

Blythe Brumleve: 40:25

And so outside of the committees and the board, what just sort of the the membership look like? Is it? Oh, I mean, obviously it's an association for North America. So is it Canada? Is it Mexico, or is it primarily US based? And then maybe, how many members? I think I read it was like, about 1000 members of IANA. That's right over. Yes, about 1000

Anne Reinke: 40:46

vast majority, are us, but we have Canadian and Mexican members as well, and we're in five divisions, as I mentioned. So I'm going to go through them, because I need to challenge myself. We have railroads, we have Marines, so ocean carriers in in ports. We have motor carriers. We have intermodal folk, you know that, I'm sorry, intermittal folk, IMCs, and three PLS, the intermodal marketing companies. And three pls. And then we have your vendors and suppliers. So then that could include your chassis providers, as well as those who make, you know, those who make stuff like the chassis, the containers, etc. Awesome. That gives me a fuller picture of because I, Anna, was always just one of those, because they, they used to, I don't, I don't know if they still do. They, they used to host a lot of conferences in Jacksonville, and I'm assuming it's because of, you know, the CSX, you know, connection. But it always was one of those things, like the when I worked at a in house, it was the small department in the back that no one really talked to. But yeah, after talking to you, I'm like, why weren't they more part of the conversation? Because it feels like there's a lot of synergy there in a variety of different ways. So maybe that's hopefully, you know, greater awareness around that will will obviously, you know, now that you're you're leading the show. Leadership, and not to discredit, you know, anything that's been done in the past, but, you know, I do think that there is a chance to shake things up a little bit when you get some new leadership involved, and part of that is also running an event, and what the focus of those events are. So tell us a little bit about the upcoming IANA Expo. Do you have? You know, one event a year is several a year, give us sort of the overview of the event side of things. Sure. So thank you for asking, of course, because it's in three weeks our intermodal Expo. It's in Long Beach, California, September 15 through the 17th. And so some people call this like speed dating for intermodal, because it's just everyone who is in intermodal and they're getting together with their customers, or they're getting together with their vendors, and they're all talking to each other about a few things, like, obviously, service contracts, next generation tech, what, you know, what kind of suppliers they should be using, and then the issues associated with, whether it's AI, cargo, theft, you know, future of recruitment, all of that kind of stuff. So it's education, and it's an opportunity to network, and it's a sort of a lot of meeting space, giving that opportunity for people to all get together. And so that is something that they've been doing for years and years and years. And, you know, the organization is 34 years old, so I'm just assuming it's a 34 year adventure. The other meeting we have is in May, and that's our committee meeting. It's kind of called our business meeting, where it's more in the weeds of those folks as alright, what are we going to do this year in this committee? And then, you know, the various issues associated with it. We had just started our cargo theft task force at this last May meeting, and so that was a big focus for our safety and security folk. But each year there's a different, you know, focus. I think one of the things was transporting lithium ion batteries. I can't even, I can't even tell you everything I heard, because it was like, it was a lot to take in. But that's something that folks, for example, I mean, I wouldn't have never thought about, but for me, I do, yeah, right, from an intermodal perspective, making sure there's security around the operation of transporting these lithium ion batteries. I mean, it's, it's, it was, anyway, it's like practical stuff of what, how you make your business work. And so then the this expo is kind of like the universe of intermodal issues. Oh, so that, okay, so that's interesting, because from I guess, a content perspective, it sounds like, you know, freight fraud or cargo theft, that's going to be a major focus. How does AI, you know, kind of play a role in an Intermodal Freight, I'm assuming, with, you know, maybe some of the other industries that it's, you know, visibility, I'm sure, or, you know, data aggregation, that kind of thing. Yeah, I think that's right. And, you know, I'm just dangerous enough, smart enough to be dangerous, or whatever the expression is about the robots that are all taking over. But I would say, Yeah, AI, it's more focused on the automation of these, these sort of data analytics, really, from our perspective, and then some of the visibility stuff too, and how you can integrate the visibility tools without compromising security. I think that's a great tension, right? Because we all want to make sure we understand where everything is, but we also want to make sure we protect that data. And so how do we do that through automation, and what does that look like? And so I'm fascinated to learn, because I need to learn more about it too. I know at Tia with technovations in particular, AI was like, everybody was just talking about AI. And so I think now there's now we're talking about it. I'm not to say that they started talking about it when I got on board. I'm not trying to be be like that, but, but, you know, I do think that there's the folks on the three PL side might have been earlier adopters than the folks on this side, and so it's just interesting to see what that looks like.

Blythe Brumleve: 45:41

Yeah, because there's definitely a lot of room for that, that kind of optimization on the the freight brokers side of things, especially with, you know, some of those, you know, digital freight brokers that tried to make that a thing, and they kind of had to, you know, change some, some their marketing and their approach a little bit differently when it wasn't as automated as I think they hoped that it would be by taking The broker out of it, and it feels like maybe intermodal on that side of things was kind of a wait and see approach, and now maybe they have a little bit of an more educated guess on where some of those different technologies could make an impact or a difference into that sector. Is that a correct assumption?

Anne Reinke: 46:21

Or, I think that's, yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, who was it? Who said this? It was probably Ryan Schreiber, who's the smartest person we all know, right? He said something like, when we talk about AI, we're just talking about automation, really is what we're talking about. And so where can we automate in a way that makes sense? And I'm with you, the experiment with digital freight brokerage was, I don't think, a successful one. I think there are elements though, that make it have make sense. The relationship is too critical, though, to just obviate completely. You cannot get rid of it, and nor should you, because, as we know, you have to trust the people you're working with. And here in intermodal you can't get rid of the relationship. I mean, it's sort of part and parcel of really what the service offering is, and so how do they use it? I think it's true. Really. How can we optimize the data that we collect? Because they all do collect data. It's just a question of, are they going to make it visible, and who are they going to make it visible

Blythe Brumleve: 47:12

to? Yeah, absolutely. All right, last few questions here, but before I move on to those, because they're kind of like more on the fun side of things. Oh, I love fun. We're going to get to a few fun questions. But I did want to you know, one last chance. Is there anything that is important on the intermodal IANA side of things that we didn't already talk about?

Anne Reinke: 47:32

No, I don't think so. I mean, oh, actually no. One thing, I amend my statement. So we're talking about data and gathering it. So IANA does have a data collection we do collect data from our from our membership, and we have a gentleman, Larry minor, I don't know if you know Larry. He's the intermodal list, who kind of synthesizes it, analyze it, gets a couple other sources, and puts out a portrait of, okay, where are we? Where are we looking like? What do we like? For example, you know, at the beginning of the year, there was a lot of freight kind of forwarded before the tariffs. So intermodal was going great. International intermittal was going great. That's obviously cooled off a little bit, although there was more because of the suspension of the Chinese tariffs. So he's the guy who puts that all together. So we, we feel like one of the really good ways to continue to have IANA be part of the source of truth as a lot relies on intermittal data. We hired a director of economics. Larry is going to retire at the end of the year. We want to make sure that we have someone who has some continuity with him to do what he does, but also to amplify it. Is there more data that we can collect that would be helpful in what is it? Route determination, whether it's, you know, you know, site selection, whether it's whatever it is, there probably is more data out there that we could be actionable, that could really assist our membership. And so that is something that we're excited about, too, because everybody knows they love data, and they they like people who can speak authoritatively about that data. And so we want to make sure we have someone like that. Yeah,

Blythe Brumleve: 49:08

no, I remember being at a conference recently, and someone had mentioned, and, God, I'm blanking on his name, but he's a host over at freightwaves, and he mentioned about how he dives into IANA data. And I was like, IANA, so in association, like, what kind of data are you? Like, I almost I was like, Are you Yeah, I asked it in a, like, a dumb way, and he was like, no. He's like, they have a ton of useful data. And I felt like an idiot. And so now, now to hear that this is, like, actually, you know, a smart thing, I was like, Oh, wow, that's okay. That makes a ton of sense. So it's um, Michael Bradford, so yeah, apologies to Michael Bradford for for giving them a dumb look on IANA data. But now, no,

Anne Reinke: 49:48

as long as you, as long as you didn't, like, hang out your tongue or anything, I think it's fine, like, not everybody knows anything. I mean, it's and again, why don't they know about it? So we gotta, we gotta do, we gotta do a better job.

Blythe Brumleve: 50:00

And so that's it. You know that that sounds like an important initiative that you're already kind of taking on and so that I think that I would be, I don't know, do you guys release any kind of regular reports, or is that kind of maybe only for members?

Anne Reinke: 50:13

Yeah, we do have the sort of, the members get the full kind of slate of information, and the non members get some partial, if that makes sense, makes sense, yeah. So we release that monthly, and it just gives people a snapshot as to what you know, how, how is the industry faring? Awesome?

Blythe Brumleve: 50:31

Yeah, that. That's something that I'll definitely have to get signed up for from like, an alert perspective. So then that way I can keep tabs on the IANA data too. So right, bite my tongue. I

Anne Reinke: 50:41

know, guys, you already have so many flying at you. I don't know why you don't know why you don't have

Blythe Brumleve: 50:46

another just add one more thing to the list, right? Could be fine. My panic attacks will subside eventually. Alright? So so I do have a couple important last questions here for what how do you feel like the commanders are going to do this season.

Anne Reinke: 51:06

I gotta tell you, hope actually came into our hearts last year, those commander fans who've had 30 years of misery, which is not to compare to the Detroit Lions and the Cleveland Browns. I get Jaguars too. Oh, the Jaguars. Yes, indeed, we're all losers, but we used to be winners Blythe, and we have been losers for 30 years, and we had a bad owner, and now we have a good owner, and we have a great quarterback, and we have a great coach. This is exciting. So I don't, I mean, I cannot predict the future, but I'm excited about that. Obviously, we just paid Terry McLaurin and he, I guess he got, deserves every penny. We're happy for him. We've got debo Samuels. Now I'm really excited about diva, like, there's, we have a lot of great weapons, and so I'm hopeful it's a it's a big year. I know cowboys. My husband's a Cowboys fan, so I can just pander, pander to they're terrible. So that should help. I mean, the Eagles are really I'm just talking about our division. The Eagles are really strong. The Giants, not so. Much. So I think we'll be up and I think we'll be up there. That's my view.

Blythe Brumleve: 52:07

Are you? Because I know when the Jaguars have, you know they they have very brief peaks, and they do very, very deep, deep lows, yeah, whenever we have our peak that next season or that season and then the following season before reality slaps us in the face again, I'm obnoxious, and nobody can stand me, and it's like I'm on top of the world because we have a 500 record for you know, the third time in my life. Are you on the maybe on the obnoxious side of things, too?

Anne Reinke: 52:38

I'm never obnoxious. I'm a delight at all times I don't know what you're talking about. I know I don't consider myself obnoxious. Let's ask others. Let's see what they have to say. But here's the thing, we were suffering for a really long time. We deserve to be happy. I can deserve it. No, I tell people all the time, if the jabbers ever win a Super Bowl, I'll burn my own house to the ground. That's how excited I will be if that happens. I don't think you're obnoxious either. I don't, I don't care what they say, just keep this obnoxious flag right next to the desk at all times, just in case, you know, somebody like a Chris jolly starts talking crap that I can, you know, wave the flag in his face. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. Okay? And we also one last question, what's one freight logistics book that the audience should check out because we connected on the box? I know this book. What other books maybe are logistics kind of or supply chain coded that you think folks should read? Can I just say the box I'm I'm drawing a blank. I know I'm trying to think of like other logistics focused books, and there's endurance so that famous, you know, Ernest Shackleton, but I don't know that that's logistics specific. That's more like leadership. I think, you know, logistics undertone to it. And I think the box is probably the most famous, that it's like, most famous. Yeah, that and what were you going to say? Well, Ryan Peterson a flex board. He had that one, like children's book, I think it's called little digger. That it was after the little, I guess, digger that was helping the ever given get out of the Suez Canal. Oh, my God, that's hilarious. So he wrote a book about that one. And I know there's some other books in the works on, you know, supply chain. I think seen a couple tweets from Craig fuller that he's, he's writing a book as well. So maybe we'll have some new entries into the mix. Yeah, next time, Blythe, let's talk books, because I got quite an array. We've got books. Kim Kardashian, the truck driver shortage, if, if, if it exists, and then policy making. So, yeah, yeah, there's a lot to do good. It's exhausting in Kim Kardashian too. I forgot about that one. Okay? And then lastly, on a more serious note, because when we ask in our pre show questionnaire, what are three strong opinions or philosophies that you believe you mentioned that happiness is achieved through helping others. Humility means no one person has all the answers. And lastly, transparency creates trust. So how do you hope to bring these philosophies to the intermodal side of things? Yeah, so I think it starts first with building your team and having them buy into that. And I think that we're we are achieving that. My when I started at Tia, I told those folks, I said, I believe in humility, transparency and integrity. I think that kind of paves the way for how you run an operation. And so I feel that way because you you cannot do any of these things that we're talking about if people don't trust you, and if they don't have an awareness of what you're doing, how can they buy into it? And so for me, that, and the last thing, it's with humility, is it's, this is not me talking this is what we're hearing from other folk. I'm just deploying how we, you know, the vision of how we do it, and I think that's important to have that success starts with has many fathers, as they say, and failure is an orphan in the storm. So I want to make sure we have buy in, that they understand what we're doing, and they can believe and trust in us and doing it well said. That's a mic drop moment. So Anne, where? Where Can folks follow you? Follow more of your work. Become an IANA member. Learn more about the the expo and future events, all that good stuff. Yes, so go to intermodal.org Also there's intermodal expo.com which is, goes directly to the Expo, and then I'm all over LinkedIn like me, repost me,

Blythe Brumleve: 56:49

get the PR out there about intermodal. We need greater awareness around the efficiency model.

Anne Reinke: 56:55

And that's right, that's right. And Diana's on LinkedIn too. It's not just me. It's not just me. Humility, humility,

Blythe Brumleve: 57:02

humility. We. Put all of those things in the show notes for folks, and then this was great conversation. I had a whole list of questions to ask that I did not. I mean, there we got to them, we covered them, but I didn't. I didn't have to read off my notes once so, or maybe for the last part, but you were, you were great to have a conversation with. Well, we'll have you back on again in the future. And thank you so much for joining us. Thank you five.

Anne Reinke: 57:29

Enjoy your trip to Japan. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much.

Blythe Brumleve: 57:38

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of everything is logistics, where we talk all things supply chain for the thinkers in freight, if you liked this episode, there's plenty more where that came from. Be sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you never miss a conversation. The show is also available in video format over on YouTube, just by searching everything is logistics, and if you're working in freight logistics or supply chain marketing, check out my company, digital dispatch. We help you build smarter websites and marketing systems that actually drive results, not just vanity metrics. Additionally, if you're trying to find the right freight tech tools or partners without getting buried in buzzwords, head on over to cargorex.io where we're building the largest database of logistics services and solutions. All the links you need are in the show notes. I'll catch you in the next Episode in go Jags, you

Unknown: 59:06

you